FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
My discovery: High frequency, low pass filter modulation

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> General Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joachim
Licensee


Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Stavanger, Norway

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: My discovery: High frequency, low pass filter modulation Reply with quote

In honor of Robert Moog, I'd like to to share a discovery I recently had, a discovery interesting for you who are familiar to the world of modular synthesis. Chances are, there aren't many of you around like me here, but I thought I'd give it a go anyway. If you share my interrest for synthezisers, I encourage you to read on.

It all started with the discovery of a British band named Redshift formed by Mark Shreeve. For those of you who are interested in electronic music and analog synthesizers, Redshift is a real gem. They sound a bit like Tangerine Dream did in the virgin years, only better in my opinion, and with a distinctive sound.
My first encounter with was their album "Halo". When I first heard it, I instantly recognized that classic Moog Modular sound I've become familiar with on several Tangerine Dream albums, and read about in interviews on www.redshreeve.org

Perhaps you might think that key words like, "classic", "analog", and "Moog" (long live the memory of him) add up to a smooth, warm sound? Think again.

To make this easier to explain, download and listen to this excerpt of the first track, named Leviathan from the "Halo" album:
http://hyper.ia.agh.edu.pl/~rork/mp3/halo/Redshift%20-%20(Halo)%20-%2001.Leviathan.mp3

Copy the entire URL to get the file.
(The [url] bbCode tag doesn't work with parenthesis signs Shocked )

The Moog can also sound very harsh and rough, and this is basicly what this post is about.
What makes Redshift sound so distinct, is not only their combination of instruments, but a clue lies in the way Mark uses the filters in his Moog Modular.
In the beginning of Leviathan, you'll hear what you'd normally expect from a Moog Modular system, which is of course that heavy, warm and punchy sound the Moog name can be associated with. But, as the track progresses, something happens, something weird. It sounds like nothing else I've ever heard before, coming from an analog synth. At first, it sounds like some sort of harsh, metallic, digital lo-fi trickery, then you might think this is high pitched ring modulation. But, as you hear other tracks under the Redshift name, you will conclude this sort of sound simply cannot be done with a digital effect processor or a ring modulator in the signal chain.

As time went on, I listened to everything I could grab a hold of by Redshift. I though of many ways of how to do this particular sound. I tried and failed with ring modulation, high frequency oscillator modulation and so on....
One day, a good friend of mine told me to try and modulate the cutoff frequency of the filter in a rapid manner, and I don't mean rapidly as in 10 to 540 Hz for instance, he suggested 1000 to 3000 Hz. I though it sounded so crazy that it actually would work. And it did!

So, how would you go about to try the same thing?
Well. first you'll need a well written software modular synth, such as VAZ Modular or Reaktor. The clue with these software modulars is that they update their parameters on a per-sample basis. If you're lucky, you might actually own a hardware modular. This trick applies to both worlds anyway.

To start, build your standard subtractive patch with two, maybe three oscillators, two envelope generators, a mixer, an amplifier and one 24db/oct low pass filter, as if you were to mimic the sound you hear in "Leviathan".
Now comes the magic. When you're done patching this seemingly basic structure together, add an additional sine wave oscillator patched through an attenuator before feeding it to one of the modulation inputs of the filter. Tune the sine oscillator to around 2khz to start off, and slowly open up the attenuator to modulate the filter cutoff as the sound plays. There you are!

Although not directly Podium-related, I hope some of you may find this interesting. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask, I'll be happy to help Smile

/Joachim
_________________
Pick your tools wisely and learn them well - it will prove far more creative and rewarding in the long run.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
duncanparsons
Licensee


Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 242
Location: UK... yes I'm fine thx..

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great Joachim. I love tidbits like that, extra strings to your bow, etc.

As and when Podium will support MIDI output plugins, then a MIDI CC LFO will be able to achieve a similar effect within Podium. Since MIDI is executed on a persample basis, all will be fine with the controlling of the synth.

I wish I'd had a 'My other synth is TONTO' sticker for my old analogue synths back in the day! O well...

Smile

DSP
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kingtubby
Licensee


Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one Joachim Smile

One of the things I love about VazMod is that it's so easy to dive in and experiment with this stuff - in fact I'm going to try it right now Exclamation

Mart.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Argitoth



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what you're basically doing using frequency modulation to output certain notes? I can't explain it well, but basically you are playing a note and then the frequency is modulated so fast that it creates an A note or whatever note you want it to create? You know?
_________________
"The only mistake in life is to give up when confronted with failure."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Joachim
Licensee


Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Stavanger, Norway

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Patch demonstration anyone? Reply with quote

Argitoth wrote:
So what you're basically doing using frequency modulation to output certain notes? I can't explain it well, but basically you are playing a note and then the frequency is modulated so fast that it creates an A note or whatever note you want it to create? You know?


No. It's rapid modulation of a filters (usually 24 dB/oct lowpass) cutoff frequency. This results in a metallic, yet warm sound.
I added you to my MSN contact list. If you have VAZ Modular, I can send you a patch or two that demonstrates this Smile

kingtubby wrote:
One of the things I love about VazMod is that it's so easy to dive in and experiment with this stuff - in fact I'm going to try it right now

Did you ever try? How did it work out?

Anyone else interrested in a patch? Razz

/Joachim
_________________
Pick your tools wisely and learn them well - it will prove far more creative and rewarding in the long run.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Argitoth



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Patch demonstration anyone? Reply with quote

Joachim wrote:

No. It's rapid modulation of a filters (usually 24 dB/oct lowpass) cutoff frequency. This results in a metallic, yet warm sound.
I added you to my MSN contact list. If you have VAZ Modular, I can send you a patch or two that demonstrates this Smile

Uh wait. I didn't mean FM, I meant modulating the cutoff frequency of a filter so fast that in creates a tone. But it seems in both cases I didn't get it right. I do not have vaz modular though. I'll be on MSN when my new computer is built.
_________________
"The only mistake in life is to give up when confronted with failure."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
kingtubby
Licensee


Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Patch demonstration anyone? Reply with quote

Joachim wrote:


kingtubby wrote:
One of the things I love about VazMod is that it's so easy to dive in and experiment with this stuff - in fact I'm going to try it right now

Did you ever try? How did it work out?

/Joachim


Yes, I tried it. I'm not sure what kind of sound to expect so I don't know if I've achieved what you were describing. I wasn't sure which settings to choose on the sine-osc to get 1-3000hz? Perhaps you could send me a patch so I can compare what you've done to my attempt.

Cheers,
Mart.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> General Chat All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: All times are GMT